Curse

haswar · Aug 16, 2007, 11:43 AM // 11:43

Dear Anet and fellow Guildwars gamers,

We would like to point of couple of things that should be take notice of,

For sometime, after the updates regarding Alliance Battle(AB) boost on the amount of faction you donate towards your Alliance is doubled towards your title, we found that it is now easier to gain the maximum rank for AB. We remember back in the days when it is hard to increase your AB rank for everyone, all my friends were hardcore AB, their R4 Defender rank was highly noticed by people even of Savior rank. However since the double faction event and the double up faction towards your title, these ranks now mean nothing to us. All the hard work just to get that title seems like it was just kind of wasted. We don't see how it is prudent to have people that have farmed way more faction in real-time and donated it to their guild have less of a rank then people that just started ABing hardcore during this double faction thing. Heroes Ascent would feel if this kind of change took place, All the Rank 9 and higher players would just flip out at people who just started HAing already having Rank 6 in a couple of weeks when it took them the better part of several months.

Our proposition to this matter is *edited 18/08/2007*(1.)please reduce the amount of faction you donate to 5k (back to original before Anet changes it) you donated when it goes towards your title, So 5k=5k not 5k=10k. *edited 18/08/2007*Through many users comments, we decide nothing can be done with this since it is too late. Therefore please reconsider proposition no.2
We know you guys have logged how much all the players have farmed in just actual faction, because when you scroll over your 10k faction bar, you can see the amount donated in real time, without the double up increase. If you can, also increase the capacity of ranks since most of us already rank 10-12 and there is no point on donating faction anymore while you are not gaining any more title, although some people still AB just to get scrolls and jade.

*edited 18/08/2007*(2.)However, we love the title system and hopefully you can increase it or add new separate titles for PvP gamers such like us that do the actual Alliance Battle only *not faction farming quest.. Since they messed up the old title system by integrating them to PvE skills.

*edited*There are many different reasons and different opinions regarding this matter with different gamer's perspectives. We want to think for the benefit for all ABer, but our main perspective regarding to this is that we want this title to be meaningful to people who do AB. I know once you maxed the title, Anet probably wants to motivate us to move to higher PvP ground like HoH and TA. But some of us already play AB for long and large community of our friends still love to AB and we just don't see how we can fit to the higher PvP ground level. Despite of our PvP skills since AB is not even a challenging PvP if you think about it, unless you are in the enemy lands. But as i say, AB is all about capture the flag with little bit of pvp involves in it. Regarding how these tittles bounded by PvE skills, we think that the skills effect should be stopped until it reaches certain of your Faction ranks. Although we didn't do PvE after we finish the campaign, again this is our perspective from ABer only not from PvEr point of views. Even better, if you nerf faction farming runs so these titles will "mean" something for the ABer would be nice, but we doubt that will happen.

While, in comparison, AB is a very popular form of PvP (Well more like Capture the Shrine game with a bit of PvP involved) for both first-timer and pros.

We will not argue the fact that AB is a far differen't form of PvP then either HoH or GvG, or even TA. However the main good thing about AB is that there is less prejudice/stereotype of people when making a team thus a bigger community as well in AB. We make lots of friends by playing with a diversity of people (some from PvE and even HoH gamers).

We hate people who think AB is just for testing skills and they can just rage quit if their team is not winning. We are disgusted by it. We know HoH, RA and even in extreme cases GvG suffers this problem, but overall, something should be done about this if it is possible.
*edited*(3.)*removed* we can see it from Nate point of view towards this matter. Since they also remove re-connect back to the game due to the bugs, guess it would be impossible.

*edited*(4.)penalized some faction points from their faction title for leechers only*. That's if the voting system is implemented. So we hope this penalizing will work towards leechers not leavers*

One thing all ABers hate is people who join the game just to leech faction and not play. In addition to that this is the same as when you are farming in PvE or doing a mission.

(5.)There should be a command like /vote kick <name> or /<no of order of members in party> and when a certain majority of people vote that person out, they are gone. Whenever this kind of vote is successful, that person is banned from AB for 10-15 mins for example. [B][I]So basically this command works the same as /resign where all members required to type it for the system to works, therefore it will decrease the chance of abuse*. I hope that explains this proposed system better.[B][I] However Anet should also try developing a method to (6.)look for players who are waiting in outpost to get into the next round to fill the leaver’s spot. This system would be beneficial to AB, HoH, GvG, and PvE if someone are leavers or had to leave, they could find available players in the outpost to join the next round or something.

Anet did a great thing by increasing the amount of faction gained in enemy lands. This will appeal more gamers do a lot more AB in the enemy lands. We greatly thank the Anet developer team for this change! It would also be very awesome if you can (7.)add 1-2 maps for both the Luxon/Kurzick territories. By adding these maps, it will make AB more interesting (since its new maps) and challenging. This is comparable to all the maps they added for HoH while AB was essentially untouched. The challenging points of view say (7.a)add "catapults" in one of the maps, or (7.b)have some path with lava to slow down your movement, (7.c)interaction with a Juggernaut or Turtle like in Fort Aspenwood (this is same as in Saltspray Beach where you can get the Dragon to follow you.) or (7.d)have some kind of pop-up ingame like HoH has when the Kurzicks push the Luxons back to their home territories and vice-versa.

We know these changes probably should have been proposed a lot sooner, but to be honest we were expecting someone else to beat us to it. But we do hope gamers and Anet will post some comments regarding these changes/propositions.

Thank you for reading this,
Colin "Porthos"
Joey "Ceres "
Mist "Mistaya"

Agriel · Aug 16, 2007, 11:50 AM // 11:50

EW!
/NOT SIGNED

The climb to 10,000,000 faction would be almost impossible if it was only 5k towards your title each time.

It still means a lot when I see a rank 6 or 7 even, I know they have put in some hard work.

Xaith · Aug 16, 2007, 11:53 AM // 11:53

/totally signed

haswar · Aug 16, 2007, 11:57 AM // 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agriel

EW!
/NOT SIGNED

The climb to 10,000,000 faction would be almost impossible if it was only 5k towards your title each time.

It still means a lot when I see a rank 6 or 7 even, I know they have put in some hard work.

It is possible, I know you may be an HoH players, but we are AB players have different opinion towards this. What would happen if they double the fame earned towards the title because I want to reach the next title too, I would flip out if I am a HoH players.

glennfarclas · Aug 16, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

I Agree with everything but the vote kick, I think the advantages of it are minimal, and the drawbacks outweigh them. but everything else is quite reasonable

Fehn · Aug 16, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

/partialsign

Quote:

(1.)please reduce the amount of faction you donate to your guild back to only giving just the actual 5k you donated when it goes towards your title.

An issue that needs to be addressed here (because not everyone is a hardcore ABer like some of us

) is how the reduction will affect Luxon/Kurzick PvE only skills. Will the players who AB for the sake of acquiring them and therefore only AB to the first title lose those skills after half their faction is taken away? It will also take twice as long for those skills to be more effective. I can see room for complaints from PvE Land, and those guys get some tough breaks because of nerfs caused by PvPers. ^^;

Quote:

(3.)If possible, make it so a player can't join an AB session if he or she has just left in the middle of an AB

I know this sounds like a good idea in attempts to cut down on "AB crime", but I can see this becoming problematic in the way that suggestion #4 would. Since there was the recent update that disallows you to reconnect to your game, this would be detrimental to players (like me

) who have finicky internet connections and would have to sit out for 5-10 minutes through no fault of their own!

Quote:

(5.)There should be a command like /vote kick <name> or /<no of order of members in party>

Since the majority of GW players are wisecracks

, I can see this command becoming severely abused. Hostility towards players because of their Guild membership, their faction alliegiance, their PvP orientation, is not at all uncommon in Guild Wars. If one finds themselves in an AB with the wrong people, an innocent life could be at stake.

Quote:

(6.)look for players who are waiting in outpost to get into the next round to fill the leaver’s spot

Loved loved loved this idea. At first.
But then I realized that there is an issue of timing with this one. If someone leaves near the end of an AB and is replaced by another player, that player who just arrived would put in about 10% of the effort and reap 100% of the faction benefits. What's this? No pain, all gain? Sounds a lot like the leecher's manifesto. This implementation may actual cause leeching to increase.

But I really like the suggestions for new maps and interactive elements (like the Juggernauts and Siege Turtles) and the majority of your comments are certainly valid concerns for any of the AB elite.
So on a scale of 1 to awesome, I rate this super great!

The Lurch · Aug 16, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

the /vote thing is bad. Say someone doesnt like another player on the team, or someone gets a lag spike. They could juts /vote them off. Not fair.

MithranArkanere · Aug 17, 2007, 12:59 AM // 00:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by haswar

(1.)please reduce the amount of faction you donate to your guild back to only giving just the actual 5k you donated when it goes towards your title
You already donate only 5k. You get more promotion points, but the donated faction remains the same. Get informed first, ok?

(2.)However, we love the title system and hopefully you can increase and make it like we have "something" to AB for donating faction thus encouraging high rank players to AB.
They have the skills with full effect what else do you want?

(3.)If possible, make it so a player can't join an AB session if he or she has just left in the middle of an AB
Disconnects, accidents, blackouts, ... no.

(4.)penalized some faction points from their faction title
NO, never, faction titles go only up. They ae not only PvP, they are also PvE.

(5.)There should be a command like /vote kick <name> or /<no of order of members in party>
There are other threads dealing with that.

(6.)look for players who are waiting in outpost to get into the next round to fill the leaver’s spot
There is one thread about that (reinforcements)

System is perfect right now, You can increase it both by PvP and PvE.

Gnat Attack · Aug 17, 2007, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

System is perfect right now, You can increase it both by PvP and PvE.

Perfect? Wait...hold on...lemme see something here...

Per*fect - [Adj., n.,Pur-fikt; v. per-fekt]

1. Conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type
2. Excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement
3. exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose
4. entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings.
5. accurate, exact, or correct in every detail
6. thorough; complete; utter

Need I go on? The bolded numbers was the kind of perfect I was thinking of when you said "perfect." If this is the same word that I was thinking of....then you fail. Please choose your word(s) more carefully.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as the Alliance Battle Changes Propositions go...I do not fully agree to all of the numbers.

1. Keep it at 10k for title for every 5k transfered to guild. This is to help the PvE'rs to get them those PvE only skills....I don't think it was anet's intention for the newbie AB'rs have to bust balls to get some skills they won't be able to use in a pvp arena. This also reminds me of the survivor title track when it was introduced. People who had a character prior to the track got shafted, just like the way we donated 4mil+ faction before the update to get 10k per 5k trasnfered. Deal with it. Sorry

2. Isn't your "something" PvE skills? Kind of like going for r7/8 glad? What keeps them going? +faction for balth cap? I don't think so.
I'm not crazy about the luxon/kurzick skills. Maybe more/better luxon/kurzicks skills would motivate high ranked AB'rs to AB more.

3. No, disconnects anyone? I'm sure of all people joey...you'd know the feeling of being disconnected. Although maybe tagging a person to inform the future party that, that person has left in the middle of a game would be nice. Then if that person leaves again...it's the leader's fault.

4. oooh, no thank you. What title do you know...decreases? Also runs in with number 3. No need to punish someone over something that wasn't even there fault.

5. This has been discussed about in the earlier posts, I see this being abused.

6. I like this idea. Replacing a leaver is an awesome idea. Having a constant filing roster to fill them leaver spots would be great. I remember someone saying that it wouldn't be fair if someone joined an almost done game to recieve 100% benefit. I would like to know who would leave around the end of the game...let alone how often would that happen? Maybe give them half of what was rewarded at the end?
If tagged players who just left a game wouldn't be able to get on the roster for obvious reasons. I see this being a great idea. Kudos on this one.

7. /agreed - more maps please!! Spice up AB maps please!
Capping points isn't very popular in HA in the mind of being a favorite. I think I speak for most HA'rs when I say "keep capping point maps/scenarios in AB." But I'm getting off of the point.
Maybe a map between luxon/kurzick - Saltspray Beach.
(7a.) /agree - nice idea
(7b.) /agree - interesting
(7c.) /um... - Juggernauts and turtles are pretty slow haha. Don't think having them follow would be the best idea. The idea is pretty iffy.
(7d.) Neat idea. Perhaps have the option hide-able for people who don't AB so it doesn't bother them. This is another iffy idea.

This is definitely coming from agrivated high ranked AB'rs

! It's been this way for a looooong time. But of all people, you guys know of the kind of players are in AB. PvE'rs not using max armor, players having no elite skill on their skillbar, trash talking people who bring 1v1 builds into AB, annoying teammates who think Rezz shrine= instant win, leavers, leechers, saccers in very extreme cases, teammates who leave before a shrine is capped, etc. Then you have high ranked heroes and champion ranked players who are elitest who are /rank happy. It happens, Sometimes you get great groups, other times you get crap players who fights the mob and/or just leaves/leeches.
I would like to see some improvements in AB, I think the prior said propositions are a great start. I tried to be constructive as much as possible, sorry if i disappointed.

Your backup friend,
The Little Gnat

4ssassin · Aug 17, 2007, 05:49 AM // 05:49

/signed, but

If you asked me the "Total amount of kurzick/luxon faction earned" should be the same as your progress in the title. Seems to be the simplest and fairest thing, is there anyone that wouldn't be happy if thats the way it worked?

People that get amber:Happy because it would be retroactive.
People that donate to guild:happy because it would be the same as before the update:
People that get skills: would probably bitch a bit, but since theres only X number of skills anyways, wouldn't drastically impact them.

Awara · Aug 17, 2007, 07:09 AM // 07:09

I whole-heartedly agree with the proposition.

Having been a hard-core aber myself for quite sometime, I was disappointed to realize that after the hard work and months it took me to gain my Luxon rank, it pretty much doesnt mean anything anymore when they have way less experienced ppl with nearly the same rank as me, having earned theirs in a matter of weeks compared to the number of months it took me to work myself up from FOL to Defender.

It would be unheard of for them to do this to the Hero title track or Gladiator for that matter, and therefore I feel they shouldnt have done it to the Luxon/Kurzick title track.

We have been plagued by leechers and rage quitters in ab forever... I like the idea of the voting system, but ... honestly that would be the lowest on my list of concerns for ab since... a lot of exp abers tend to ab wi ppl they know or have some type of connection to anyway, so its unlikely they'll find themselves on a team wi rage quitters/leechers, the more u play, the better you get to know who is who/who to team with and who not to. In any case, the voting system is still a great idea and worthy of consideration.

We could certainly use new maps, I'm not sure why this has not already been done either.. so Kudos to Ceres, Porth, Mistaya, officially pointing that out. It will definately help to keep things more interesting.

All in all I do get the feeling that anet slacks a lot on the development of ab by comparisom to other forms of pvp. Hopefully this message gets thru to em. TY, and good looking out!

Aug 17, 2007, 07:20 AM // 07:20

/signed

the 10k faction for 5k is annoying and the noobs who think that is bad can stfu they say that is hard to get savior when its not u have to be dedicated like in HA to get ranks. and they should have the /vote thing but everyone in the team has to do it

enslaved · Aug 17, 2007, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Like Litha Before and some of what Gnat said. i would have to say /partiallySigned

There are a few things that would be over abused, but all these players getting their Rank 6 Title in one weekend is kinda annoying. Cause with Title comes wisecrack attitude, and some of these players dont know anything about AB or "capping" as we call it. I remember how i had to AB for a whole day just to pull in around 40-60k just to hit my "defender" of luxon in 3 months. I worked for it, now people just get it in no time. The vote kick ability should be for anyone of the group (Not Team) cause honestly how many groups or guilds are full leechers. its just usually lazy people who dont want to farm their 10k faction/Jade/get payed in their guild. Map change would also be a nice thing to have. I mean yeah AB is fun and all but if something doesnt change in AB (Which is about all i do on GW now) Then i dont think i could last till GW2. GW:EN sounds like a whole PvE thing, not gonna cut it for me.
Another thing, Tho i dont think all of you would agree, But i would love to see AB be PvE based. Then all this "wiki" name calling and unoriginal builds and Nerfs wouldnt be so one sided. Take the sin for Example, How many of those SP sins or Generic wiki sins that you see in AB actually went out and capped that skill and learned it. They could have leeched the faction to use that skill and now are using someone's hard earned Time to easily kill someone in AB. It would show the Truly skilled players out of the bunch rather than these over abused builds. ~Not saying that all PvP players in AB are skill-less, But i have seen my share of them~
I would love to sit here and keep ranting but i dont think i could put all the ideas onto this 1 post alone. The ideas are good, But when you consider them. you have to think about it in a way that people will abuse it. Cause people are always looking for a way to abuse the rules. Thank you for your time.

~Alarar~

Amby Wolf · Aug 17, 2007, 10:11 AM // 10:11

/signed

I agree with the whole thing. I think I AB alot who only goes for fun not to ff. Just somthing I like doing with my friends. I took longer getting my rank 4 then it took me to et to my rank 5. thats not right. People who are still very new AB have the same rank as I do somtimes.

Anyways I like the rest of the ideas aswell. The kick thing I like but maybe ony an option if the player dont move for 5 mins, then a team press y or n to kick. Great ideas!
-Amby

WingMender · Aug 17, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

I like AB, so /signed

"vote kick" command !! FA players can be happy

MithranArkanere · Aug 17, 2007, 01:05 PM // 13:05

No.

The alliegance titles are not the Hero titles, they are linked to PvE skills, they MUST be much more easily atainable, like the Sunspear and Lightbringer.

The sooner, the better.

haswar · Aug 17, 2007, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

No.

The alliegance titles are not the Hero titles, they are linked to PvE skills, they MUST be much more easily atainable, like the Sunspear and Lightbringer.

The sooner, the better.

We don't know what are you going on about. We presume you are not a hardcore ABer as us back in the old days when they haven't update. We the old ABer earn our title from Alliance Battle through countless of AB and hard-backbreakingwork. Since they double the faction earned, these titles are now meaningless to us.

Read what Amby said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmbyWolf

I took longer getting my rank 4 then it took me to get to my rank 5. thats not right. People who are still very new AB have the same rank as I do somtimes

and Read what enslaved said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enslaved

Cause with Title comes wisecrack attitude, and some of these players dont know anything about AB or "capping" as we call it. I remember how i had to AB for a whole day just to pull in around 40-60k just to hit my "defender" of luxon in 3 months. I worked for it, now people just get it in no time.

and Awara said too:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awara

I was disappointed to realize that after the hard work and months it took me to gain my Luxon rank, it pretty much doesnt mean anything anymore when they have way less experienced ppl with nearly the same rank as me, having earned theirs in a matter of weeks compared to the number of months it took me to work myself up from FOL to Defender. It would be unheard of for them to do this to the Hero title track or Gladiator for that matter, and therefore I feel they shouldnt have done it to the Luxon/Kurzick title track

AB now is somewhere between PvP and PvE because of these changes. Or you could say AB is like a stepping stone for PvEr players. If you try to combine two things together , obviously it's not going to work. We know the purpose for this is to increase AB players. However Anet really should distinguished AB between PvP and PvE. Not mixed them up together. we like how the old AB system back then where they didn't merge AB with PvE skills. (except for now the only thing we like is the earn more faction in enemy lands)

Now You are comparing AB with PvE. They are COMPLETELY different. Anet used to treat PvP and PvE differently. I don't know why they include AB to gain PvE skills now. I disagree with this. Sunspear and Lightbringer are pure PvE titles, so we don't care about that. If you are an ABer, we treat AB as pure PvP like RA and TA, why? Because you see other players as your enemy and you are engaging with them. Isnt that somewhat related to Player versus Player? You tell me...
Sunspear and Lightbringer ranks? You kill monsters and you earn the titles. You don't see "human" players as your enemy . How can you start comparing Sunspear/Lightbringer points to Alliance Battle points. You can't. They are different.

Again your perspective might come from PvEr based point of view, and ours from ABer point of view. If you were in our shoes you will know how we feel right now.

Mistaya Heart · Aug 17, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

YAY!! you go jowy, stick it to the man!!! /insane

Ork Pride · Aug 17, 2007, 05:44 PM // 17:44

/unsigned:

All AB needs is:
New maps
More reward for the losing team

Nothing else.

MithranArkanere · Aug 17, 2007, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Things change, get over it.

PvE players do not need more grind. You can still change the faction for other stuff and

AB and PvE ARE different, but alliegance faction is used in PvE only.
That is, AB is under the feet of PvE.

Get used to that, and focus in balthazar faction.